Issues with family line and stelliums

[Modcleopatra]

Hello to all of my genius and soon-to-become genius astrologer friends! If you have the time and you are bored... come help me with some psychological astrology stuff involving family issues... FUN STUFF! (not!)


I know "father issues" are fairly common but still, my dad was a real jerk. Described by my psychiatrist as a few shades short of full-blown narcissist, my father singled me out for intense abuse, loved my sister without question, and denigrated my mother. Some psychiatric intervention, some of my own confrontation, and I think and hope spiritual growth on his part have started to mitigate circumstances, but he and I still share a barbed relationship. He doesn't like to socialize unless he is "doing something," or is in control in some way, like having to be the one to BBQ or something. He is however, very charismatic, but sometimes freaks people out with his intense warmth... he has no idea how strong he comes across.

I'm curious about his chart, despite a conjunction between his mars and saturn, and a square between pluto and his moon, he has a GREAT chart. All sextiles and trines.

I have included all four of our charts; my father's, mother's, sister's, and mine respectively.

I am not looking for major interpretations at all. Just a cursory glance, things that seemed huge to you that I could bring with me to therapy. Pluto is in my 12th house nearly cusping my ascendant so I have been on the major psychological clean out for a while. Any help would be appreciated.

My relationship with dad is tense, my relationship with my sister waxes and wanes (they adore one another and my sister is willing to baby my father), my mother clings to me and adores me (i find her to be needy but I don't mind playing warrior), my parents have a bizarre relationship (my mother is CONVINCED she can spiritually heal my father whereas my father is a relatively oblivious toad... though he is getting better), and like i said, my dad and i have a tense relationship (i get the sense he is jealous of me and he tells me i'm a worthless selfish person while also sexualizing me) and above all... WHY DO I FEEL LIKE THE ONLY ADULT IN THE HOUSE?!!?!?!

Curious about my sister and father's opposing stelliums, what does that mean, why does it make them close to each other but alienate me? Why do my mother and I side with each other against my dad? Or rather, why does he imagine this to be happening? Why does my sister feel ignored and abandoned? Why do my parents fight about me?

http://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?cid=3wbfilefgrr1L-u1108330500&lang=e&gm=a1&nhor=25914099&nho2=860505&btyp=2&mth=gw&sday=21&smon=7&syr=2008&hsy=-1&zod=&orbp=&rs=0&ano=1&ast=

that is my father's chart


http://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?rs=0&ast=&gm=a1&sday=21&btyp=2&syr=2008&zod=&lang=e&orbp=&ano=1&mth=gw&cid=3wbfilefgrr1L-u1108330500&hsy=-1&smon=7&nhor=25477578&go.x=13&go.y=10&go=Go

that was my mother's chart

ttp://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?rs=0&ast=&gm=a1&btyp=2&sday=21&syr=2008&go.x=26&lang=e&zod=&go.y=14&go=Go&orbp=&ano=1&mth=gw&cid=3wbfilefgrr1L-u1108330500&hsy=-1&smon=7&nhor=28936578&go.x=20&go.y=13&go=Go

that is my younger sister's chart

and then my chart...
http://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?rs=0&ast=&gm=a1&sday=21&btyp=2&syr=2008&zod=&lang=e&orbp=&ano=1&mth=gw&cid=3wbfilefgrr1L-u1108330500&hsy=-1&smon=7&nhor=860505&go.x=26&go.y=14&go=Go


thanks for your time everyone... EVEN FOR JUST READING THIS POST :)

[Hey]

In your chart:
Definitely Sun square Pluto has some strong father issues. The father may be seen as controlling, manipulative, and may even seem to be hiding things.

[delilah4]

I haven't gone indepth but the first thing I noticed was your father's full 5th house. He is probably all about fun and games. The 5th house is also about sex so he is probably a very sexual person as well. I know this is kinda strange, but it's possible that your father sees you as an attractive woman and he probably doesn't feel comfortable about the feelings aroused in him by that because you are his daughter. These feelings may creep him out and make him feel defensive towards you.

When you mentioned your father coming across too intense even with a harmonious chart the first thing I thought was that he probably has several pluto aspects which turns out he does. Pluto in the house of communication aspecting jupiter which tends to make things larger than life. However Uranus in the first may make him seem 'different' to others on first encounter.

You have plenty of cap so you would feel like the only adult...Cappy's are born adults in a way. I think that's a good thing. I wish I had planets in Cap.

[junetown]

just had to jump in and say happy birthday :D

[smilingsteph]

Hi!
Well,
Pluto in the third house of communications-
He tries to control others through his ruthless words, has issues with his emotions and his control with pluto....moon square pluto....
He uses emotional blackmail as a form of control....
He may have had some sort of skeletons in the closet when talking about his brothers or sisters...something dark
He may have come from a family which was not appropriate to show feelings, issues with his mother also come to mind
When the moon is in scorpio square to the moon, the intensity of pluto is increased, in my opinion...
Pluto is at 24 degrees, to the IC- not sure if the orb is too great, but
This shows that he may have had some sort of violation take place against him or his mother, He was forced to touch the darker sides of life....
I am wondering did he have it badly as a child?

Your mom and your dad have some similarities in the moon square pluto, but hers is more in the aspect of health matters and education...
She seems to be able to allow for her emotions to be released in an easier manner than your father is able to.

[Nexus7]

The father' chart hints at someone who has experienced their share of disappointments in life, but other than that, I would not want to comment too much on that. The point being, that someone who feels that their own dreams were not realised as much as they could have been might seek to fulfil them in others - classic FGreene territory there. Ihave not looked at Saturn links too -I am just going at a glimpse on one or two basic things I saw there.

I am not surprised that this is a difficult relationship - his Sun on your Moon? There is a lot of 'you' in each other, but the very fact of having such similar qualities may create irritation. There may also be the need to separate yourself from him, especially with Mars conjunct Moon. Also - does your father look for affirmation and support from you?

Then again, there is the exact link between your Mars and his Chiron. I still don't feel I have enough of a sense of Chiron to make any analysis with full confidence there, but it could be a prickly, undermining sort of a link again. A sense that in the face of self-asserion, chinks in the armour get exposed, though it may be a good question, whose chinks do, precisely. It is supposed to be the Chiron person who bears the famous wounds, but they could be just as good at finding the 'buttons' in others - though the Moon can be pretty sensitive from that point of view, too.

I could not get to see mother' chart. I am sure that there are others who will return to pick at the bones of these synastries too.

[Plutonian Persona]

I'm curious about his chart, despite a conjunction between his mars and saturn, and a square between pluto and his moon, he has a GREAT chart. All sextiles and trines.

Be careful about categorizing a chart that has little or no conflict in it as a "Great Chart" as a lot of the time the biggest jerks are the ones with the "perfect" charts. To me at least, an easy chart with a lot of trines and no squares means that the person has very little to learn or resolve in this lifetime and therefore just languishes around like a total [self-involved] fool.

[starlink]

Be careful about categorizing a chart that has little or no conflict in it as a "Great Chart" as a lot of the time the biggest jerks are the ones with the "perfect" charts. To me at least, an easy chart with a lot of trines and no squares means that the person has very little to learn or resolve in this lifetime
I cannot agree more!! Is he maybe lazy as well or do things just fall into his lap?? Even though he has this Mars/Saturn conj. in his 5th he does not strike me as a serious worker (notwithstanding his Cardinal Sun sextiling his MC.) But as we know, sextiles need personal input. More into pleasure and sex (Moon in Scorpio in 5, mmmm.... I can see he is charismatic, Venus sextile Mars, ruler of his Scorpio Moon. He could have artistic qualities. Jupiter, ruler 6 and 10th both in the 12th of secrecy and self-undoing.

Sun and Venus in Capricorn and Saturn conjunct Moon all show his inhibition. Sun rules 3d house of communication. He would like to be surrounded by others, but indeed, wont really know how to express his feelings or what to say.

Many flowing aspects very often show no personal input, not effort put into realizing goals etc. the only real square is the Moon-Pluto one, the other is a generational one and the two planets dont rule Sun, Moon or Asc. so I look at this one as secondary.
Very interesting thread by the way!
I must take a bit of time looking at the other charts and probably will come back later. What immediately struck me was your fathers Chiron conjunct your Moon (he somehow projects his "wound" on you) and his Sun conj. your Neptune, Asc. and Mars! Very personal, yet unpleasant, connection. Your mom has his Mars/Saturn and Moon in her 8th house. She falls for his charisma and sexappeal and there is a strong karmic bond present. (also not too pleasant)
Cheers, Star.

[Lissa]

Plutonian Persona is absolutely true!A chart full of sextiles and trines is not an easy chart.I'm not even sure if there really is such a thing!Plus,your dad has his fair share of conjunctions,and conjunctions are very hard to manage sometimes.

Unfortunately,I couldn't open your sister's chart somehow,but there seems to be a Capricornian theme in your family,with both of your parents being Capricorns(and your mom having a Capricorn Sun in square to it's own ruler)and you having a Cappy Moon.Your dad strikes me as someone very egoistical,who lets himself get carried away by his powerful emotional needs(Moon in Scorp square Pluto)and wishes to draw back from his responsabilities,prefering to live in the world of pleasures and fun,all5th house matters.The5th is also the house of children.With Neptune there,it could be that he feels greatly confused about what his role as a parent should be about.

I was once taught that the5th house signifies one's first child,and then from there you take each house as signifying all the other children(6th house second child,7th is the3rd child,etc).So,you being his first child(I'm assuming you are),this makes you Venus,closely tied to the Descendant and Mercury.Maybe he never treated you like a child because he didn't know how to;he doesn't know how to see you as a child,mistaking you for a partner.With a Mars/Saturn conjunction in the5th,I believe he accuses you of being a non-worthy individual as a reflection of how he feels inside;you are not an unworthy person,but he feels like he is so himself,and takes it out on you.His Scorpio Moon is playing around with your emotions,because he can't deal with the material that emerges from his own psyche and mistakes all those feelings that arise from within as coming from the outside.Your sister,being signified by the6th house,is represented by Mars,but somehow,for reasons showed in their synastry,your dad treats her differently.

What strikes me the most about the synastry between you is your Moon sitting on his Chiron/North Node conjunction.These are two very karmical objects;you are part of his evolutional path here on Earth.He needs to learn his own self-worth.Yes,he may be egoistical,but that does not mean he has enough self-esteem.He may say'I want this because this pleases me,I want this because it makes me feel good',but he may not feel entitled to that.He probably doesn't feel he is worth getting the things he gets;he may want a lot and he may demand a lot from others,but I don't believe he feels like a worthy individual,someone with a valuable contribution to the world.That's what the2nd house South Node is about;he needs to learn his own value,what makes him unique and worth being loved.I really think he transfers his feelings of innedequacy to you and uses you as a mirror of his own faults;so,when he says,'you are nothing',what he really means is'I feel like I'm nothing'.Plus,much of his self value and identity comes from relationships(focus on the7th house of partnerships),and seeing his relationships failing is not contributing to his self-image at all.

[starlink]

The5th is also the house of children.With Neptune there,it could be that he feels greatly confused about what his role as a parent should be about.

Well done Lissa! good observation.


A chart full of sextiles and trines is not an easy chart.I'm not even sure if there really is such a thing!

Oh yes, there is. I once had to do the son and the daughter of a friend of mine. I have never ever encountered anything like those two charts in my life. She had a chart with only squares,oppositions and conjuncts and her brother only trines and sextiles!! The brother committed suicide after one year of marriage (on his weddingday to be precise). It was mindboggling!! This shows how difficult only trines and sextiles can be for the individual. He was the most charming and most popular guy imaginable, good looking and all. My daughter knew him from school. You can imagine the shock!


With a Mars/Saturn conjunction in the5th,I believe he accuses you of being a non-worthy individual as a reflection of how he feels inside;

So here we see it twice over as I saw it with Chiron conjunct Cleopatra's Moon:

What immediately struck me was your fathers Chiron conjunct your Moon (he somehow projects his "wound" on you) and his Sun conj. your Neptune, Asc. and Mars! Very personal, yet unpleasant, connection.

[wilsontc]

Mod,

You asked:
WHY DO I FEEL LIKE THE ONLY ADULT IN THE HOUSE?!!?!?!

You have Pluto (transformation, also control) on the Midheaven (outer world), indicating you need to be in control of the outer world. So you have a need to "take control" of things and be "in charge".

In control,

Tim

[starlink]

Why do my mother and I side with each other against my dad
Probably because your mother wants to defend you against him. She probably feels what this is doing to you. She loves you with her Sun conjunct your Moon in your 1st house and she sort of sees you also as a true (girl)friend (your Moon in her 11th. Your fathers Chiron touches her Sun and your Moon simultaneously, therefore she feels the same wrath as you do.
why does he imagine this to be happening
He does not imagine it I think, it is true, she is against him when it concerns you. That's probably also why they are fighting over you. He says one thing to you and she defends you (or maybe lateron tells him he should not have behaved like that, whatever). They are not on one line towards you.
I understand she wants to "heal" him. With her Pisces Ascendant and her Venus, ruler of her 8th in her 12th trine exactly his Mars, ruler of his Moon, and Saturn, she probably knows exactly how insecure he really is. Also note that both have a Moon-Pluto square and therefore have had similar emotional experiences in their childhood. Often people seek each other out with similar aspects involving Pluto, as it is quite karmic. Also very karmic is the fact that his Mars, Saturn and Moon all fall in her 8th house. He can make her feel really bad at times and yet, she is totally bound to him. (look at his Moon trining her Ascendant as well!).

It is interesting to see that her Mars and Venus both conjunct his MC. She must play an important role in his life.

I also cannot open the file with your sisters chart by the way.

Cheers, Starlink

[Claire19]

In your chart:
Definitely Sun square Pluto has some strong father issues. The father may be seen as controlling, manipulative, and may even seem to be hiding things.

Your fatrher's Moon square Pluto is a very emotionally abusive and controlling aspect. He will have experienced some of this from his own mother or in the family. He is projecting this out and accuses others of his own behaviour. Pluto can be largely unconscious. There can be a strong sexual element in the family also.

[Claire19]

Just a comment on sextiles and trines. These are easy aspects that can be taken for granted and give an easier ride through life which means the person has no resilence or strength that comes from the squares and some conjunctions plus oppositions. These are aspects meant for our growth and progress. When they face difficulties they have no way of dealing with them or the strength to overcome the problems. While they may be in many ways advanced souls who have earned these easy aspects it is not a blessing to be devoid of hard aspects. Life is hard for everyone sometime or another and we need the faith and determination to continue that comes from hard knocks in our lives.:)