moon aspects

[barbh]

Is it only the next applying aspect of the moon that we use?

What if the moon is applying to planet A before it applies to the quesited? Does this mean the planet A frustrates it? Or, could it just mean some sort of event that will lead to getting to the quesited? Or, what if the moon's last aspect is to the quesited?

And translation as well. Same question as above.

thanks
barbh :)

[starlink]

Hi Barbh! Oh, well, as AG has not replied yet (and probably has a much better answer than I do,) I will start with what I AM certain of .
Is it only the next applying aspect of the moon that we use?

No, I always look at all the aspects the Moon makes before she leaves her sign. It shows the hurdles on the way so to say, or also the fortunes. But the very last one is i.m.o. the most significant one.


What if the moon is applying to planet A before it applies to the quesited? Does this mean the planet A frustrates it? Or, could it just mean some sort of event that will lead to getting to the quesited?

If in the question the Moon (representing the quisitor) has to get to the quisited and when Moon should stumble over another planet first, then indeed , something or someone, will interfere with the perfection. This is when Moon is used as co-ruler of quisited of course. You use the Moon, when the main ruler of the Querent does not make an aspect with the quisited.

But if the Moon, as co-significator, also does not make a future aspect to the quisited, then we can start looking at translation to see if maybe the Moon could bring the quisited and the quisitor together by first conjuncting or whatever other aspect, planets A, then does the same to planet B.

However, should Moon, after aspecting A, make an aspect with planet C (a conjunction for instance), before getting to B, then also, another person or situation blocks the "helper Moon" in her attempt to reach the quisited.
This is called obstruction, very similar to frustration of course, because an obstruction usually frustrates us.

A frustration is actually better seen by a planet which all of a sudden goes retrograde and therefore cannot make the perfection. You see him coming and you think AHA, there he is!! and OOPS, he turns around and runs away in the last minute.Very frustrating of course.

I hope I got the terms right. It is quite confusing, but in both cases the same thing happens in fact: the perfection does not happen.


Or, what if the moon's last aspect is to the quesited?


You probably mean when there is indeed an obstruction, but after that, the Moon does finally get to the quisited. Here it gets tricky. I would say that when it is Moons very last aspect, than it is after all the hick-ups and intentions of others to provoke a problem, still a good outcome. I would then say: "after much strive", or, "the intervening person did not cause a disruption but tried hard to let things go wrong "(lets say it is about marriage and another lover wants to interfere, but Moon still gets to what she wants, then that lover did not get what he or she wanted.

In cases like that where it looks like a Yes-No, I start looking for other things like the ruler of the house of endings. How is that one aspected. Where is the NNode, does he conjunct the quisitor? Or the antiscion. If there are no aspects between A and B to be found, the Antiscion of A conjunct planet B or vice versa, could be very helpful. Or in cases dealing with luck, the Part of Fortune conjunct the quisited or quisitor. Things like that. When one of those things looks good, then I say Yes, when it is the reverse, I say NO.

Hope this helps! Cheers, Starlink

[barbh]

Hi Star

Still confused by what you're saying. It sounds like you don't use the next applying aspect, which is the opposite of what I thought...and read.

Let's use an example.

Lets say we're using the moon as the querent, and Saturn as the quesited.
If the moon say, sextiles mercury, then squares Mars, and then finally sextiles Saturn (with reception)...and then the last aspect is a conjunction to Jupiter....would be say that yes, indeed, because the moon does sextile Saturn eventually...the two will come together? OR, do we say no because the moon hits merc and mars first??

quote from Frawley p. 97


"In most horaries we are concerned only with the next aspect a planet makes, or sometimes its next two aspects if there is a translation of light. Do not push planets through aspect after aspect....('the moon goes on to square Mars, then to conjunct Saturn, then trine Venus...etc). It is most unlikely that these later apsect will be relevant."


Ok, so from that, I get that if the moon is translating from the quesited to the querent, then its okay even if the translation isn't direct. i.e...the moon may go from quesited, to mars, then to venus, and then to the querent...but its still a translation.

I also get that if there is no translation...and the moon has to hit several planets before it hits the quesited...then we can't use it.


does that make sense?

thanks
barbh

[starlink]

Hi Barb, yes, I know what Frawley says about this, but he actually points to the planets, not the Moon. Planets move way slower than the Moon, so there I DONT look at the 3rd, 4th and more aspects a planet is going to make.
But when we talk about the Moon, than that is quite another story.
Moon represents different things, moods, emotions, the querent or quisited, time etc. So when I see that the Moon needs to get to planet C, but has to pass through planet A and B first, then I do not stop at A. Planet A might throw a lot of dirt on Moon's road, like Saturn (all sorts of problems) or Mars (accident or another male person), but if it is Venus or Jupiter or Mercury he encounters, then that might just mean that she is going to the beautician first (Venus), then to church for a prayer (Jupiter), then sends her lover an SMS to tell him that she is coming but is a bit on the late side (Mercury) after which she meets him. End station, last aspect before Moon leaves her sign. Now if this last aspect is yakkee, then the other one could have gotten fed up with her and gotten angry for the delay. If the last aspect is a nice one, then he does not matter that she is late. That's how I look at it.
Ok, so from that, I get that if the moon is translating from the quesited to the querent, then its okay even if the translation isn't direct. i.e...the moon may go from quesited, to mars, then to venus, and then to the querent...but its still a translation.

It is an obstructed translation. Moon wont be able here to bring the light over. the other planets get the light, not the Querent or the Quisited, depending on whom is being translated to whom.
Like I wrote:

However, should Moon, after aspecting A, make an aspect with planet C (a conjunction for instance), before getting to B, then also, another person or situation blocks the "helper Moon" in her attempt to reach the quisited.
This is called obstruction, very similar to frustration of course, because an obstruction usually frustrates us.



So to summon up again:
With a normal moving through the Sign the Moon is in, I look at all the aspects she makes before leaving her sign. Last aspect is the most important.
With a translation of light, Moon CAN be blocked when touching another planet first and will not be able to make contact therefore.
With a normal planet who first squares another one, you can maybe look if the next aspect then is better, but after that I also dont look in the future.

Is it a bit clearer now?
Cheers,Starlink

[Radu]

I agree with you Starlink on everything you wrote - that's probably because we had the same sources of information :)

I'd merely want to point out the differences between the Moon as the cosignificator and the main significator (usually 1st house ruler). The Moon shows the "functional side" - like unfolding of events, the main significator stands for the "structural side" - is therefore descriptive to persons, conditions, environement, situations. It is important to clearly understand the difference when the main significator says one thing and the Moon another - in these cases I take the main significator to give the correct answer.

[barbh]

Thank you Star and Radu

Got it! The moon describes the unfolding of events, and we can indeed use it to get to the quesited. Translation only works if the moon is applying from quesited back to the querent's planet immediately...if it has to go over a planet or two first, then its obstructed..as Star pointed out - the other planet gets the light.

thanks guys for clearing that up
barbh :)

[tikana]

Good thread!

Here is additional question

what happens if the moon is out of 12 deg orb but the next planet is 2nd significator of the question?

muchas danke

T

[starlink]

Tikana, do you mean, when Moon is still in one sign and 2nd significator is in the next sign but outside Moon's 12° orb. And what is this 2nd significator ? Is this a 2nd significator of the Quisited?, like a planet in the 1st house of the quisited? I am afraid that I dont really understand your question Tik.
Remember, Saturn-Mercury.....:)
Star.

[tikana]

Starlink

Like yesterday and today. Moon does not apply to anything .. VOID.. however, let's say someone run a question 1/7 .. Cancer/capricorn rising/desce or vice versa..
the first planet moon meets after changes a sign is saturn. what do you do ?
do you stil consider this as an aspect?

Thanks
T

[starlink]

Weeelllll, no, I dont think I consider it anymore as an aspect, certainly not outside the 12° zone. I know that Mister Lilly used these extra 12° to accomodate certain outcomes he wanted to end positively, a bit tricky really, and as I never will be as good as he was,I dont feel comfortable doing it.
Cheers, Starlink

[Kaiousei no Senshi]

Concerning Tikana's question; according to what I've been told this could still work if and only if Luna were in a Sign wherein she is "not much impeded": Pisces, Taurus, Cancer (the feminine Signs of the benefics). As I came to understand it, then and only then can Luna "jump" Signs and her applying aspects to planets in other - typically non-viewable - Signs count in the outcome.

I might be mistaken though.

[starlink]

Hello Kai! Thank you for this information. It does sound logical in a way as Moon is also not very much impeded by VOC when she is in these signs.
I would most certainly consider this if the aspect would indeed still be made within or up to the 12° orb. What do you think?
On the other hand, we can then look at it as a sort of progression of the horary and say something like: ......but it might be possible that over a period of time, things could still come to perfection, also considering then the other planets and what they are doing when they have left their signs. (only the significant one's of course, not all of them).
I must ask someone more experienced or try to find it in one of my books.
Lilly, here I come (again....)!!!

Cheers, Starlink

[Kaiousei no Senshi]

I would most certainly consider this if the aspect would indeed still be made within or up to the 12° orb. What do you think?

Luna's Orb of Moeity is indeed 12°, so it's quite plausible that this upcoming aspect should be counted. I would just say that it takes longer for the event the planet Luna is next applying to is representing to occur than it would were it already in a viewable Sign from whatever Sign Luna is currently in.

I feel like I'm talking in circles. @.@