Saturn and Mars conjunction bad in horary?

[Neptune Rising]

Hi!

I did a horary asking about my father, and got me as Mars and my Dad as Saturn, both in Virgo, about to conjunct. (I asked if I should write to him, 3rd and 4th house was Saturn)

Is this conjunction bad news considering the different natures of the two planets? I think they can be seen negatively - as frustrating, or positively - as giving direction/drive.

Saturn and Mars don't recieve each other at all either, but they both recieve the Moon by triplicity. There is also no helpful trines from the benefics Venus or Jupiter, though Venus is in Mars triplicity, so MR with Mars/Venus. Mars/Saturn are both angular in the 10th too if that helps anything.

I'd be thankful for any advice if anyone can suggest if this conjunction is the same as any other.:)

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk27/Jo75Tiger/shouldiwritetodad.gif
NR

[aquarius7000]

Hi NR,

Interesing question - one involving both the Malefics in a direct relationship to eachother. Saturn (the Greater Malefic), and Mars (the lesser) are both in a conjunction to eachother - which is a major aspect - and so of significance in Horary.
Just looking at Saturn and Mars with regards to your question, well, to my knowledge, if Mars/ Saturn are well placed in the (horary) chart (and both in this case though neither exalted or dignified, are also not in their signs of detriment or fall either); and signify the matter of the querent, then the Saturn-Mars conjunction can mean that Saturn will put the Martian energies to constructive and fruitful use providing endurance to carry out the task and solve problems -if any; so, this 'plain' conjunction could well be either a neutral or even a constructive one. Don't see any harm here at least.

NR, try posting the chart - it helps those of us, who are more used to visuals;), and might get you more responses. Hope that those who are well versed in Horary, like AG, will contribute to this thread.

:)aquarius7000

[Blandy]

I agree Saturn's dispositor is currently in it's own sign as well, so that's a plus. Saturn is kind of O.K. in Virgo(control issues) aside from being peregrine.

[Kaiousei no Senshi]

If you're asking if you should write your father and the significators for your letter and your father are about to conjoin, that should be obvious that he will receive the letter, but I feel what's important is the reception between the two to indicate how he will feel about the letter. I think Saturn not receiving Mars other than an applying conjunction would be okay. Not great, not horrible. But okay.

[Neptune Rising]

Hi, thanks very much everyone for the replies, much food for thought.

Hi Aquarius7000 , I've edited the first post to include the chart for interest.

I wonder if they are helped by being dignified in the 10th with Regulus... maybe them being maelifics describes the general situation between me and him, which could do with improving.

Blandy, good point, Mercury is good in Gemini and now totally direct. And he is leaving a square to Uranus, good. Plus Moon will sextile it, looks great, that is the oppertunity for a communication.

Kaiousi, yes I was concerned about that, his reaction. It looks kind of neutral with no reception. He does recieve the Moon by triplicity though, and so do I. That could be him recieving the emotions I express in the letter...

Mars also rules his 3rd house! Maybe he writes back! I'll let you all know if he does.

Thanks again for all your suggestions :)

NR

[starlink]

I also see the Saturn-Mars conjunction as positive NR. Both planets will sextile your Ascendant as well.

Cheers, Starlink

[Neptune Rising]

:):) Ah yes, thanks Starlink. Hey and they trine the DC. I recently got a lot of encouragement from an ex that looks out for me.

NR

[Neptune Rising]

I just noticed that the Moon is conjunct the South Node. What is that about? Then it will oppose Chiron. Perhaps it is just refering to the past karma that I'm trying to heal..

NR

[aquarius7000]

I would think so, too. Involvement of Nodes is said to be Karmic.
Just wondering, any issues with your mum (Moon), too? Otherwise it really is a question of healing your own feelings - something that you might have been retreating from...

See how 'close' this excerpt comes to your situation:

People with this aspect constantly try to escape their woundedness (the nature of which is indicated by Chiron (http://astrologynotes.org/wiki/Chiron)'s placement). Since they are always emotionally retreating into behavior which is diametrically opposed to that behavior which would provide healing, they cannot heal until they can overcome their lower nature (Moon (http://astrologynotes.org/wiki/Moon)) sufficiently to express themselves (Sun (http://astrologynotes.org/wiki/Sun)) in a way which relieves their pain and provides healing (Chiron).
The woundedness is often connected to an early loss in the family, or a deep conflict therein. There may be a misidentification or lack of identification with a parent, who may become physically or emotionally absent. Or there is a hole left in the family by an event early on. These people often carry a yearning to reconnect with a parent or a missing family element throughout their lives.

All the best
:)aquarius7000

[starlink]

Aquarius, just a horary reminder. William the great Lilly had never heard of Chiron, nor of Pluto, Neptune or Uranus, so the very traditional astrologers never use any of those at all. Certainly not Chiron. That is only used in Natal astrology.

The Nodes however play a role in Horary, but often indicating luck, not being connected so much to relationships or karma etc. like in natal horary. John Frawley writes about the Nodes: "North Node=Good, South Node=Bad. But as they come as a pair, automatically the opposite placement shows "bad" so that means you should consider only one of them, according to the planet it conjuncts or opposes. So if the NN is in the 1st house (lets say without aspects) then this house is strengthened and the 7th automatically weakened. But dont count these as two separate testimonies. In all astrological judgement we must be wary of anything that follows automatically".

He also writes: "The nodes do not cast aspects, nor can they have aspects cast to them. They affect planets only by conjunction. If one node falls into a house relevant to the question, it can affect that house. The NN falling in a house is good for the affairs of that house or shows the querent benefitting from that house. Be careful to avoid dragging them into judgement unnecessarily. the Nodes will appear in every chart but in most charts they have nothing to tell us. Only if it falls in a house that concerns us do we look at it".

He also says that a planet in the same degree as the Node being called "fate" is groundless. But personally I have seen several charts which showed real critical situations when the querent's planet was in the same degree as the Nodes, so I dont feel it is groundless.

All in all, the Karmic connection we find in the natal chart with the Nodes, we do not have in horary astrology. And only conjunctions are important.Squares, oppositions and other aspects to the Nodes do not play a role.

The 3 outer planets I do use sporadic and only when they are very prominently placed, conjunct an Angle. I use them as "back-up" for Querent and Quisited. So if Aquarius rules the Quisited, I primarily look at Saturn but do glance at Uranus.

Cheers, Starlink

[tikana]

Me has to agree with Starlink on this

Mars/Saturn are in angular house

accidental dignity.

if it was say

Mars to aspect Venus but saturn was in the middle the i would say that that is very bad! in this case it is not!

cheers
T

[Neptune Rising]

People with this aspect constantly try to escape their woundedness (the nature of which is indicated by Chiron (http://astrologynotes.org/wiki/Chiron)'s placement). Since they are always emotionally retreating into behavior which is diametrically opposed to that behavior which would provide healing, they cannot heal until they can overcome their lower nature (Moon (http://astrologynotes.org/wiki/Moon)) sufficiently to express themselves (Sun (http://astrologynotes.org/wiki/Sun)) in a way which relieves their pain and provides healing (Chiron).

Hi Aquarius,

thanks very much for that, very kind of you :). I'm going to print this off to remind myself. I think its to do with my 4th house natal Chiron, and this is why I've chosen to write to him, and do the chart to guage the general atmosphere.

There are a few issues with my Mum too but not so many, we are close. Its just my Dad I haven't spoken to in over a decade. It ended badly between us, so I'm hoping to bring about some forgiveness through this letter. A great guy I know said to me that I'm bitter, and finally I understand why. All you need is love! :p

NR

[Neptune Rising]

Starlink, thanks for that wonderful information.

I don't know if I'm having a typical Neptunian delusion, but in this chart would I pay more attention to North Node being in the 3rd house (communications) as being good, rather than looking at Moon conjunct South Node?

NR

[Neptune Rising]

Me has to agree with Starlink on this

Mars/Saturn are in angular house

accidental dignity.

if it was say

Mars to aspect Venus but saturn was in the middle the i would say that that is very bad! in this case it is not!


Thanks for your reply Tik, much appreciated!
I'm happy its not a question about romance then! :p
NR

[aquarius7000]

Starlink, thanks for bringing to the fore what Horary is all about! Indeed Chiron, the Nodes etc have no role to play in Horary.

That excerpt including information on Chiron etc was mentioned in response to Neptune Rising's question in her post, where she asked about the Nodes and Karma etc... And I was so focused on the question itself that, while answering it, I forgot for a minute the title of the board (horary), and inclued things like Chiron etc. Yes, this is a horary board, so I apologise. However, the information seems to have been of use and applicable to NR's current situation, and I'm glad about that.

:)aquarius7000

[starlink]

Neptune, I am afraid that the South Node conjunct the Moon, especially because it is really exact, is far more important than the NN in the 3rd.
As you know, you are signified by the ruler of the Ascendant,in this case Mars AND the Moon. The Moon is always taken as co-significator of the Querent, except when she represents the quisited which is not the case here. So the Moon here, and actually the Asc. in the Via Combusta as you might have seen, both show that you are quite unhappy about the situation with your father. The NN in the 3rd could be an indication that writing would indeed be a good thing to do.

The 3rd house and the 4th (dad) are both ruled by Saturn in the 10th, accidentally dignified, so I would give this a YES, do write. Also the fixed angles show a YES. Sometimes however fixed angles can show a situation which will not change, but then it should be accompanied by a question asking if a certain situation will have duration or if change is in the air.
As said before, Saturn will sextile the Ascendant, so again I feel that writing a letter would be helpful.

Cheers, Starlink

[starlink]

Hi Aquarius, I understand. I also sometimes am in one thread thinking that Î am in another:) or I still have a chart in mind, or an aspect of that chart and then somehow totally forget and continue in the same thought mode with the new one. Being in a Forum with so many topics, it is very easy to get confused.

Cheers, STarlink

[Neptune Rising]

Thank you so much Starlink for helping me understand the chart. I was a bit worried about the Moon/South Node but am very encouraged by what you said. I will write to him, I've put it off far too long :)

Thanks everyone for responding, this means alot to me. I know I'm a softie but....:39:

NR

[astroguy24]

"Involvement of Nodes is said to be Karmic."


ohhh sounds like good news!

[Neptune Rising]

Thanks Astroguy :)
NR

[Neptune Rising]

Hi everyone

I posted it on Tuesday 8th at 9.10pm, picked that time as Moon was just entering Libra. I thought better that than a void Moon though I haven't a clue about event charts. But its a great step, for over 10 years I havent had the courage.
Thanks for all your encouragement guys/gals! :39:

NR